Instead I envision an outcome similar to the political realignment the GOP just finished, where a growing progressive caucus gains enough traction in primaries to force concessions from the party leadership until the neoliberals are all but pushed out entirely.
I’d love for that to happen, but OP is literally the only crack I see.
I mean, totally works even with a Star Wars context. If our evil fascist dictator wasn’t calling people who spoke the truth scum, he wouldn’t be much of an evil fascist dictator now would he?
Hopefully this heralds the realignment of the Democrats back towards a pro-worker party. Neoliberalism has failed this country for 35 years.
Did you see how hard the democratic establishment worked against him? Nah.
We need Bernie, AOC and some like minded folks to start a new party. Dems want to blame progressives for every loss? Fine. Give progressives a party full of established voices and known leaders. See how Dems do when NONE of the progressives give them a vote.
And holy shit I just may have realized why 2020 made D track right instead of left. They know the non-monied class is slowly realizing what they stand for, and need to peel off R votes.
Doesn’t matter. He could nominate satan himself and dems would vote him in right along with r.
Edit: I’ll update with a link when they confirm him for the doubters.
Warm fuzzy feelings are good. Actual results are far better.
Which did we get in this case? Seems like neither to me.
Well, I can only go on the magas in my life. I have a lot of them, and they are all bigots, in addition to whatever other justification they claimed.
(Setting aside their ahem naivete at thinking he’d fix the economy.)
I don’t think most people who voted for him expected that he was gonna go completely apeshit like he has. I sure didn’t think he was gonna be this insane.
There’s been a nonstop drumbeat of people including Trump himself telling everyone that he’d go EXACTLY this apeshit, so I don’t know why.
Sure, but not all the people who voted for trump were Republicans
They all knew who Republicans were though.
These are two of the the primary things gone from my life now that I’ve cut every conservative I can from it. It’s glorious.
So if you want me to support some kind of outreach for conservatives (who apparently can’t post anywhere they aren’t overtly welcomed and that’s a problem the rest of us need to fix) I need some understanding of what you think the upside is.
I haven’t seen that.
I’ve seen scolding people for not wanting to surround themselves with people who have had years and years to demonstrate what they are like and what they support. The only thing new about modern conservatism is how it no longer bothers trying to pretend it’s not hateful.
As I have said repeatedly, nothing stops a conservative from coming here and communicating like an adult.
The issue with echo chambers is that they reinforce people’s existing beliefs instead of challenging them. That often comes with extreme hostility toward anyone who doesn’t share those beliefs.
One more thing -
Why do conversations like this always assume:
The entirety of my life’s experience with conservatives is online or even recent.
That somehow I don’t know what conservatives support. I’m looking at the effects of what they support in the news right now. Just like I did during the satanic panic, just like I did during all their attempts to take away the rights of women, just like I did during my lifetime of watching them try to treat the actual lives of LGBTQ+ like a fucking talking point, just like I’ve done during my lifetime of watching how their policies impact black people, and (since the current group hasn’t yet figured out how to reach back in time and change textbooks) just like I learned during all my various history classes.
So now, when the conservatives in the world are the most openly hateful and bigoted they have ever been in my nearly sixty years, folks are going to scold me for being fucking done with them? Do not want, do not accept.
For sixty fucking years the group of people most obviously and loudly working to make things miserable for the fucking rest of us has been conservatives. WHAT am I going to learn now from them? A deeper understanding for how little they care about anyone not like them? The nuance of their bigotry?
LOL is he an idiot for thinking it mattered if it was dark or am I one for thinking it probably hasn’t mattered for at least twenty years? (approx 1:50 timestamp in the embedded video)
I’m sure you can see the value in a left-leaning person going to a place like Truth Social and, in a calm and respectful way, arguing against the claims they disagree with. Well, in my view, Lemmy could use something similar.
In my view, again, nothing is stopping them. They either know how to have an adult discussion or they don’t. Plenty of people on Lemmy who also disagree with them will back them up for that if they can actually have an adult conversation. Probably even me, but since I’ve not seen that happen yet, tough to say!
I also don’t think right-wingers are the only ones to blame when it comes to the breakdown of polite discussion.
You are entitled to your own opinion.
OK, have crawled up the context tree, and don’t see where you think I’ve misunderstood your point. You think it’s an echo chamber (I do not) and you think that’s bad (I do not) and apparently I’m supposed to feel a little sheepish about not wanting shitty people with shitty behavior here at Lemmy. (I do not.)
The fact that you characterise natural ways of engaging in a discussion negatively doesn’t mean it’s not genuine,
It’s natural to ask questions. It’s natural to point out hypocrisy.
JAQing off and Whataboutism are not those things.
Edit: And frankly, having to explain that in regard to my comment above is precisely what I love not having to constantly do at Lemmy. (Because people both understand the difference, and don’t pretend not to.)
it doesn’t mean you’re forced to look at it if it’s available.
The case being made here is that this is a left wing echo chamber, and that I am not interested in genuine discussion if I either don’t think it is, or don’t care that it is.
I have provided examples of trolling, toxic behavior.
I do not want trolling, toxic behavior here. It is not welcome by me in the community, whether I’m forced to look at it or not.
I’m also not supporting (and nor am I aware of any such thing existing) some kind of a blanket ban on conservatives. They are the folks always telling people to man up, grab themselves by their bootstraps, have the courage of their convictions, etc etc. Guess they need to take some of their own advice if it’s a little rough sometimes trying to push authoritarianism and bigotry in some spaces. And if they get banned because they have forgotten how to talk to people who don’t already agree with them, I can’t find it in me to care.
I will not be shamed into allowing toxicity into my life, on social media or otherwise, in the name of “avoiding an echo chamber.”
Maybe I misread you. I think I’m being told not only that it is an echo chamber, but that I’m supposed to be bothered by it.
Meanwhile I haven’t seen an argument for what we’d gain by having more conservatives here, or what’s stopping those unicorn conservatives who aren’t raging assholes from posting.
Heh, I’m sure they are much better people than US conservatives, but I’ll quote myself from elsehwere.
The conservatives who “can’t” post to Lemmy are the ones who don’t know how to have an actual conversation and get banned. What fraction of conservatives that represents is an excercise left to the reader. But I’ve got my own opinion on that number for sure.
“The right” consists of individuals,
Every last one of them who voted for trump has decided that bigotry and steamrolling our constitution in the name of authoritarianism are somewhere between just what they wanted and not a dealbreaker.
What else do I need to know about them?
Thank god you can point to ONE SINGLE instance where Trump isn’t actively supporting white nationalist christofascism.
But the dearth of genuine political discussion here is a problem for the people who do want it
It’s not genuine if we don’t want to constantly have to expose ourselves to toxic bigots or “smooth” manipulators who think it’s not really toxic bigotry if they are “just asking questions?”
It’s not genuine if we don’t want to start every single discussion of something bad Trump did with rebutting a half dozen versions of “but whatabout that time when dems…”?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
I will not be shamed into allowing toxicity into my life, on social media or otherwise, in the name of “avoiding an echo chamber.” NOTHING is stopping a conservative from coming here and making cogent, factual arguments, aside from their own fragility.
The conservatives who “can’t” post to Lemmy are the ones who don’t know how to have an actual conversation and get banned. What fraction of conservatives that represents is an excercise left to the reader. But I’ve got my own opinion on that number for sure.
Some might say it’s fine because we’re on the right side of history and they’re not, or something along those lines
I say it’s fine because if there’s one thing I’ve learned repeatedly since about 2017, it’s that the single most effective thing I can do to reduce toxicity in my life is to reduce my interactions with conservative family members, coworkers, ‘friends’, and social media accounts.
It’s remarkably effective. I interact with no conservative or known trump voter more than work or family obligations require. Haven’t for years. Best mental health step I’ve taken in my adult life.
Not my fault they have all forgotten that “loudest asshole in the room” isn’t a personality.
70 million people looked at maga bigotry of various sorts and found it not to be a dealbreaker. Fact. They either hoped or knew Trump would hurt other people not like them, so they gave him a pass. (and that doesn’t count what I believe to be the vast majority of Trump voters who were overtly OK with it.)
My intent in sharing here isn’t to postmortem the election. It’s a reminder of the 70 million shitty people we smile and shake hands with every day.
Sure, but how the hell was 2020 not a wake up call if representing the people actually mattered to them. I’m willing to give Clinton and to a lesser extent Obama some slack for being a product of their time. R hated Clinton then about as much as they do AOC now.